Special FOM Dipsy Tutorial
Let's start with the principles of how divers work and what a tremendous tool they've become in Salmon and Walleye fishing. First of all, a diver is a mechanism that attains depth by water pressure forcing it down. You can fish divers to 100 feet plus and it's often been referred to as the "poor man's downrigger".
The modern day directional divers, like the Slide Diver and the Dipsy Diver, will also dive out and away from the boat, depending on how much line you let out. This happens because of their saucer shape along with an adjustable lead keel (in most cases). Once you've mastered the simple techniques when using these remarkable pieces of plastic, you'll come to rely on them as much as I do.
Why are divers so highly effective? Because in most cases they fish out and away from the boat, increasing your trolling path by 100 feet or more. Also, they cover areas in a stealthy, silent mode out where those spooky fish are going to go to avoid pressure.
Dipsy Divers are a product manufactured by Luhr Jensen and Sons in Hood River Oregon. The Dipsys are probably the most widely used divers on the Great Lakes and will dive straight down and out to the side of your trolling pattern, depending on what number you dial it on. It comes in 2 sizes with rings that are added for extra depth. These things do catch fish and by mastering the Dipsys you'll be adding many more fish to your yearly catch.
Divers are widely effected by line diameter and type of line used (Mono, Spectra or Wire). This is going to be a hard one for me to explain exactly where the divers are fishing. This is a seat of the pants feel you'll have to develop on your own, but I do have some basic guidelines that can be applied.
There is a well defined science to using diving planers and I've yet to master it myself after over 30 years of trying, but I'll try to explain to you what I've learned.
Most importantly, short leaders behind the divers have never really produced well for me. What I mean is leaders 6 feet or shorter. If I'm using a 10 foot rod, a 10 foot leader is required for best results.
Dipsys come in many colors, I prefer black or purple for walleye, otherwise I don't have a color preference most of the time.
Dipsys come in many colors, I prefer black or purple for walleye, otherwise I don't have a color preference most of the time.
Here is a view of the components:
Here's a worthwhile tip: Take an older beat up Dipsy and paint it flat black with spray paint. When the fish are reel choosy in the middle of the day, that one that will probably go. If you stretch the snubber out, you can paint that when spraying the diver.
Advantages of the Dipsy Diver:
1. Your trolling area is doubled, exposing lures to fish which might not otherwise see them.2. More lures can be trolled at once, and sharp turns made without fear of tangling.
3. Due to the multidirectional features, they can be trolled with downriggers without fear of interfering with the cables.
4. Can be used for trolling just beneath the surface and tripped from the boat.
5. Act as a fish attractor because of their color and shape.
6. Once tripped there is no resistance in the water, allowing easy retrieval of your gear or fish.
7. Easy to use, reset easily, always work, and apply to trolling just about everywhere, even saltwater.
8. Require a minimum of trolling gear and storage space.
Rigging the Dipsy Diver:
9. Allow at least 4' - 6' of leader between diver and lure. 10. Allow at least 4' of leader between the diver and dodgers.
11. Adjust No. 1 tension screw to hold release pin in place, but do not overtighten.
12. Tension screw No. 2 should be tightened just enough to hold the plate in position and still allow for easy rotation for a new setting.
13. Use a snubber between the dipsy and lure to absorb the shock of hard-striking or soft mouthed fish.
This chart shows the approximate depth of the #1 Dipsy Diver with "0"-Ring will reach by measuring the amount of line released after the diver enters the water. Trolling speed, line diameter, and lure drag can increase or decrease these figures.
The amount of line needed to reach a desired depth is shown under each base plate setting using 20# monofilament line.
Depths are achieved without using "O"-Ring.
Depth chart readings are based on trolling speed of 2.5 - 3.0 m.p.h. using 20# mono. Trolling depths will increase/decrease by 10% for each 1 m.p.h. faster or slower. Line diameter and lure or attractor drag can also affect depth reached. The Dipsy Diver will reach greater depths when used with wire line or line that has a smaller diameter, such as a super braid.
A Snubber is a necessity when using the non-stretch Spectra type fishing lines (i.e. Spider Wire, Gorilla Braid and Rip Cord, Power pro etc.). The snubbers can be purchased anyplace selling the Dipsys.
Snubbers are a device sold by Luhr Jensen and Sons that come in 2 sizes, 8 and 6 inches. Don't waste your money on the 6 inch ones. Buy only the 8 inch ones that will stretch out to about 18 inches under stress. The snubbers are made out of brightly colored surgical tubing with a piece of about 80 test Dacron line on the inside as a safety, in case the tubing breaks. The snubber works as a shock absorber, so the fish can't use the weight and mass of the diver against you. Also, the snubber helps provide constant, even tension on the lure.
This product is a must if you're using the new space age Spectra type lines that have no stretch, plus the fact that most diver rods are about 10 feet long and don't have a forgiving action to them because of the hard pull that the diver exerts.
Snubbers are only optional if you're using mono as the main line (there's enough stretch in the mono), and can slow down or inhibit the action of a hard pulling lure like a number 4 or 5 J-plug in case you're on harbor patrol around river mouths emptying into the great lakes or ocean.
Depth chart readings are based on trolling speed of 2.5 - 3.0 m.p.h. using 20# mono. Trolling depths will increase/decrease by 10% for each 1 m.p.h. faster or slower. Line diameter and lure or attractor drag can also affect depth reached. The Dipsy Diver will reach greater depths when used with wire line or line that has a smaller diameter, such as a super braid.
Snubbers are Shock Absorbers
A Snubber is a necessity when using the non-stretch Spectra type fishing lines (i.e. Spider Wire, Gorilla Braid and Rip Cord, Power pro etc.). The snubbers can be purchased anyplace selling the Dipsys.
Snubbers are a device sold by Luhr Jensen and Sons that come in 2 sizes, 8 and 6 inches. Don't waste your money on the 6 inch ones. Buy only the 8 inch ones that will stretch out to about 18 inches under stress. The snubbers are made out of brightly colored surgical tubing with a piece of about 80 test Dacron line on the inside as a safety, in case the tubing breaks. The snubber works as a shock absorber, so the fish can't use the weight and mass of the diver against you. Also, the snubber helps provide constant, even tension on the lure.
This product is a must if you're using the new space age Spectra type lines that have no stretch, plus the fact that most diver rods are about 10 feet long and don't have a forgiving action to them because of the hard pull that the diver exerts.
Snubbers are only optional if you're using mono as the main line (there's enough stretch in the mono), and can slow down or inhibit the action of a hard pulling lure like a number 4 or 5 J-plug in case you're on harbor patrol around river mouths emptying into the great lakes or ocean.
FOM Dipsy Pro-Tips:
1. Use a Big Jon Jettison Release above the diver when using mono and you'll be able to add a line above the diver so you can offer two lures instead of one. This is a deadly tournament tactic.
2. When the fish are in the top 40 feet, use mono for additional distance away from the boat. I use 20 pound test for mono divers.
2. When the fish are in the top 40 feet, use mono for additional distance away from the boat. I use 20 pound test for mono divers.
Steelhead love mono divers and will usually avoid the Spectra ones like the plague.
3. Warm water is much less dense than colder water and will effect how much water and depth the diver will be able to attain.
4. Use 1/16 minute turns when setting the tension on the release mechanism or you'll over tighten and the fish won't be able to trip the diver "free."
5. The larger ring made by the Slide Diver folks is a godsend when you have to get the Dipsy to 100 feet or more. This depth can be attained by using 30 pound test Spectra Braid which is 10 pound test in monofilament fishing lines.
6. Dialed on 3 setting, a diver with no ring will crawl out to the side at about the rate of 4 to 1, as far as depth goes, from my experience. Hence, a diver out 80 feet will be down in the 20 to 25 foot range depending on the density of the water.
7. The above mentioned Jettison Release can be used with a 1 pound lead ball set up in a dropper configuration to gain depth with mono up to 100 feet or so.
8. I never developed a certain color preference other than the port divers are generally red colored and something in green means starboard. This is a handy way to keep you spread from getting tangled in a big mess. Hey, at 5 o'clock in the morning or in the dark, it's hard to grab the right rod. Also, magic marker the high and low diver to keep things straight.
9. You can run a high and a low diver for a total of 4 divers off the sides of your boat (two port, two starboard). If divers are "reel hot", a tail gunner should be added, dialed on "0", straight off the back of your vessel. That is called sending one down the chute.
10. You can let the high diver over the low diver by letting out at least 50 of line on a light free spool over the top of the low diver without tangling up ........most of the time. Start as far away from the rod as possible on the opposite side of the boat.
11. Do not let the dipsy out too fast, your line will wrap around the faster sinking dipsy upon set.
New comers should place the clicker on and release line ever so slowly watching the dipsy pull out to the proper side until at required length/depth. You cannot set them too slow. Most newcomers problems is that they have not learned the "feel" and try to set too fast resulting in tangles. Also keep them at least 10-15' separated in distance. And when set, leave the drag so light that it will just hold line from coming out with the clicker on. Also when you get a hook up, tighten very gently until you can "hold" the fish and gain (if possible), do not over tighten, take your time with a steady retrieve keeping an arch in the rod to work for you. Do not lift the fishes head out of the water at any time.
3. Warm water is much less dense than colder water and will effect how much water and depth the diver will be able to attain.
4. Use 1/16 minute turns when setting the tension on the release mechanism or you'll over tighten and the fish won't be able to trip the diver "free."
5. The larger ring made by the Slide Diver folks is a godsend when you have to get the Dipsy to 100 feet or more. This depth can be attained by using 30 pound test Spectra Braid which is 10 pound test in monofilament fishing lines.
6. Dialed on 3 setting, a diver with no ring will crawl out to the side at about the rate of 4 to 1, as far as depth goes, from my experience. Hence, a diver out 80 feet will be down in the 20 to 25 foot range depending on the density of the water.
7. The above mentioned Jettison Release can be used with a 1 pound lead ball set up in a dropper configuration to gain depth with mono up to 100 feet or so.
8. I never developed a certain color preference other than the port divers are generally red colored and something in green means starboard. This is a handy way to keep you spread from getting tangled in a big mess. Hey, at 5 o'clock in the morning or in the dark, it's hard to grab the right rod. Also, magic marker the high and low diver to keep things straight.
9. You can run a high and a low diver for a total of 4 divers off the sides of your boat (two port, two starboard). If divers are "reel hot", a tail gunner should be added, dialed on "0", straight off the back of your vessel. That is called sending one down the chute.
10. You can let the high diver over the low diver by letting out at least 50 of line on a light free spool over the top of the low diver without tangling up ........most of the time. Start as far away from the rod as possible on the opposite side of the boat.
11. Do not let the dipsy out too fast, your line will wrap around the faster sinking dipsy upon set.
New comers should place the clicker on and release line ever so slowly watching the dipsy pull out to the proper side until at required length/depth. You cannot set them too slow. Most newcomers problems is that they have not learned the "feel" and try to set too fast resulting in tangles. Also keep them at least 10-15' separated in distance. And when set, leave the drag so light that it will just hold line from coming out with the clicker on. Also when you get a hook up, tighten very gently until you can "hold" the fish and gain (if possible), do not over tighten, take your time with a steady retrieve keeping an arch in the rod to work for you. Do not lift the fishes head out of the water at any time.
To SPEED SET a dipsy is another whole ball game. This is best learned by going with someone that can show you.
It has many variables and times it cannot be accomplished because of other forces. ie. Currents and such, The boat, speeds, currents and other factors have to be in line. You HAVE to be able to recognize these things to apply proper procedures. There is no such thing as different ways to do this. It is either performed correctly or you have a serious mess to contend with.
Reachable Depths:
This is the hardest part of all to get right because boat speed, current, water density, diameter of the fishing line and what type of line will all effect just how deep you'll be able to get. Not to mention that with turns there can be a rise and fall of your divers by as much as 10 feet. Plus, let's throw in the additional water resistance caused by debris such as weeds and the sea fleas or biothropidies cedermies.
So there is no way I'm going to get this exactly right. While I haven't talked about it yet, the kind of lure you're towing will also cause the depth to be different. Case in point; a size "0" dodger that has a fairly good pull or water resistance will change the angle of the diver as it digs to achieve depth. Measured line also changes with the type of the reel and how full the spool is, so be ready for lots of variables. The following guidelines are what have worked for me.
Here's a rough chart you could keep in your head to keep track of how deep your Dipsy's running with said amount of line out, so here it is. Dialed on 1 with ring: 30 lb. test Spectra type line is roughly a 2 to 1 count until you get past the 50' depth. Hence 100' of line out you'll be plus or minus at or near the 50' mark at a medium to slow trolling speed. Dialed on 2 with ring: 30 lb. test Spectra type line is about a 2 1/2 to 1 ratio depending on lure and speed. Dialed on 3 with ring: This is real close to a 3 1/2 or 4 to 1 ratio or count. So let's say with 120' of Spectra braid type line you'll be at or close to 30' as long as you're pulling spoons. Lure type effects the above formula, especially the size 0 dodgers, so add a little more line in this case.
Take the time when fishing is slow to sneak into shallower water and hit bottom with the divers you're using and record depths and dial settings with rings and no rings for best placement.
One fact is that, it is not the secret lure or the secret color...95 percent of the time it is getting your lure to the right depth and staying in the strike zone.
The advantage of dipsys over lead would be fact that dipsys will pull off to the side a little. But to accomplish this, the boats speed is usually over 2 mph. At slower speeds the dipsys just collapse down, with very little pull to the side.
At speeds of 1 mph and only running 2 lines, you'd probably be better off by keeping it simple. Dipsys have 2-1/2 ozs of lead in them, so they are a sinker with added feature of the ability to pull off to the side a bit.
I don't run dipsys under 1.7 mph, they do not perform well under 1.8 SOG and most often it is up around 2.5 to 3.4 mph.
If you plan to run any of the diving devices (dipsys, jets, etc.) you should get the Big Water edition.
The Big Water edition does NOT have the dive curves for the crankbaits, so you will probably want to get BOTH books so you have both the dive curves for the cranks and also for the diving devices like dipsys and jets.
I use the regular dipsy diver, it's what I've been using for years so I'm sticking with them for now, the only color I run is black for the most part, when I'm steelie fishing as well I'll run some colors (orange) (shiney) but black or purple is a safe bet for walleye so they won't spook due to all the flash in clear water.
I typically use the large dipsy but on the western Basin I also run Mediums along with 30 jets off of big boards.
#1 Dipsys can cover the water column great, no need for small ones in the central and eastern basin of Erie, the smaller ones at times will not even get deep enough and they don't release as well either.
No, you do not need planer boards to run dispy's. #1 dipsys pull to hard to even think about it.
So there is no way I'm going to get this exactly right. While I haven't talked about it yet, the kind of lure you're towing will also cause the depth to be different. Case in point; a size "0" dodger that has a fairly good pull or water resistance will change the angle of the diver as it digs to achieve depth. Measured line also changes with the type of the reel and how full the spool is, so be ready for lots of variables. The following guidelines are what have worked for me.
Here's a rough chart you could keep in your head to keep track of how deep your Dipsy's running with said amount of line out, so here it is. Dialed on 1 with ring: 30 lb. test Spectra type line is roughly a 2 to 1 count until you get past the 50' depth. Hence 100' of line out you'll be plus or minus at or near the 50' mark at a medium to slow trolling speed. Dialed on 2 with ring: 30 lb. test Spectra type line is about a 2 1/2 to 1 ratio depending on lure and speed. Dialed on 3 with ring: This is real close to a 3 1/2 or 4 to 1 ratio or count. So let's say with 120' of Spectra braid type line you'll be at or close to 30' as long as you're pulling spoons. Lure type effects the above formula, especially the size 0 dodgers, so add a little more line in this case.
Take the time when fishing is slow to sneak into shallower water and hit bottom with the divers you're using and record depths and dial settings with rings and no rings for best placement.
One fact is that, it is not the secret lure or the secret color...95 percent of the time it is getting your lure to the right depth and staying in the strike zone.
The advantage of dipsys over lead would be fact that dipsys will pull off to the side a little. But to accomplish this, the boats speed is usually over 2 mph. At slower speeds the dipsys just collapse down, with very little pull to the side.
At speeds of 1 mph and only running 2 lines, you'd probably be better off by keeping it simple. Dipsys have 2-1/2 ozs of lead in them, so they are a sinker with added feature of the ability to pull off to the side a bit.
I don't run dipsys under 1.7 mph, they do not perform well under 1.8 SOG and most often it is up around 2.5 to 3.4 mph.
If you plan to run any of the diving devices (dipsys, jets, etc.) you should get the Big Water edition.
The Big Water edition does NOT have the dive curves for the crankbaits, so you will probably want to get BOTH books so you have both the dive curves for the cranks and also for the diving devices like dipsys and jets.
I use the regular dipsy diver, it's what I've been using for years so I'm sticking with them for now, the only color I run is black for the most part, when I'm steelie fishing as well I'll run some colors (orange) (shiney) but black or purple is a safe bet for walleye so they won't spook due to all the flash in clear water.
I typically use the large dipsy but on the western Basin I also run Mediums along with 30 jets off of big boards.
#1 Dipsys can cover the water column great, no need for small ones in the central and eastern basin of Erie, the smaller ones at times will not even get deep enough and they don't release as well either.
No, you do not need planer boards to run dispy's. #1 dipsys pull to hard to even think about it.
(why long beefy rods are needed)
Line- most guys favor 30/8 Power Pro of 40/10 either is fine, I've used both and really can't tell the difference although the 30/8 will go slightly deeper. I use 15 or 20 pound Fluorocarbon leader with a quality snap on one end and for the business end where your spoon, crank or spinner goes you want a quality ball bearing swivel to eliminate line twist, I like Seaguar Fluorocarbon, Carbon Pro or Invix.
Your main line attaches the dipsy with a large snap, you connect it to the "arm" part of the dipsy, so when you want to check your bait and pull it in or when a fish hits it the arm will release and stop the dipsy from pulling so there is no resistance. On the other end goes your leader, I don't know how long your rods will be or how big of a boat but use the longest leader possible without it being hard to net fish, typically 6-7 ft.
Snubbers are useful when Steelies are around, they fight very hard and hit like Mack trucks, they will clean you right off, so the rubber snubber acts as a shock absorber to hard fighting fish, when I'm targeting walleye out west, I do not use one.
When I am spoon/crank fishing for Walleye off Cleveland or East where you can inevitably get chomped off by a Steelie, I will typically use a snubber, clear or black only.
Do yourself a favor and stick to the 8 foot ones.
Snubbers are also easy and inexpensive to make your own.
Dreamweaver sells nice clear ones that won't rot out like the Jensen ones do.
I will typically run 3-4 dipsy rods per side, on variable settings this is my typical spread of diver fishing, but you can run them however you like. This will depend on your size of boat and conditions. Just be sure your set them far enough a part so they don't tangle when fishing, turning, or re-setting lines. Make S turns while dipsy fishing, walleye love when the bait speeds up or slows down, this often triggers strikes from following fish.
This gives me the opportunity to explain why we have our dipsy rod holders only 10" or so apart and all lined up on a rail.
With the dipsy holder in line only 10" apart, the rod tips are that same 10" apart. And the lines from the rod tips to the water fan out and up to form even spaces between them (like skinny little wedges).
Now if we hook up a 4" white perch, pick up a weed or some other piece of trash, the rod tip may only move 2" with the added drag. But when that even 10" spacing on the rod tips changes to 8" on one side and 10" on the other, it is very obvious.
As you get into trolling reading the rods is what separates the men from the boys, and we do all we can to simplify that reading of the rods.
If the dipsy rod holders are spread out seeing those little 2" changes is nearly impossible. You should have plenty ample rod holders on the boat so that you can always move a rod out of the way.
Dipsy settings depend on where you fish and what you're pulling. West end spoons I'd go with 1-1/2 & 3. For east of Lorain 1 & 2-1/2. For harnesses or stick baits drop them down 1/2 for either area. Which would make it 1 & 2-1/2 for the islands and 1/2 and 2 for deeper water.
The free area of the "shoot" is important. There will likely be a time when you have 2 fish coming in at one time, and you need all the space you can get. If you have less than 10 inches between the down dipsy rod tips, you'd probably be wise to try and increase that, especially if the dipsy rods are not low to the water.
All this becomes more crucial if you fish for Steelhead or Salmon
The smaller dipsys (size 0) can be run off big boards (Charters have been doing it for years)when you have higher suspended fish. They use a super braid line and go with special releases and rubber bands to hold them.
The fun part of Lake Erie walleye fishing is that you can catch these fish in so many different ways, at whatever program you want to perfect. Just work at it and put a program together.
I looked at the numbers for magnum dipsys, and for Geneva to Conny, the dive angle on the magnum is so steep that you don't get enough lateral separation of the dipsys if you are running 3 or 4 a side.
Most guys run 30lb power pro for the main line.
A 12lb fluoro leader is too light if you need to crank down the dipsy release tension because of high waves, even with snubbers on the back of the dipsy.
Steelies will chomp you off.
Line- most guys favor 30/8 Power Pro of 40/10 either is fine, I've used both and really can't tell the difference although the 30/8 will go slightly deeper. I use 15 or 20 pound Fluorocarbon leader with a quality snap on one end and for the business end where your spoon, crank or spinner goes you want a quality ball bearing swivel to eliminate line twist, I like Seaguar Fluorocarbon, Carbon Pro or Invix.
Your main line attaches the dipsy with a large snap, you connect it to the "arm" part of the dipsy, so when you want to check your bait and pull it in or when a fish hits it the arm will release and stop the dipsy from pulling so there is no resistance. On the other end goes your leader, I don't know how long your rods will be or how big of a boat but use the longest leader possible without it being hard to net fish, typically 6-7 ft.
Snubbers are useful when Steelies are around, they fight very hard and hit like Mack trucks, they will clean you right off, so the rubber snubber acts as a shock absorber to hard fighting fish, when I'm targeting walleye out west, I do not use one.
When I am spoon/crank fishing for Walleye off Cleveland or East where you can inevitably get chomped off by a Steelie, I will typically use a snubber, clear or black only.
Do yourself a favor and stick to the 8 foot ones.
Snubbers are also easy and inexpensive to make your own.
Dreamweaver sells nice clear ones that won't rot out like the Jensen ones do.
I will typically run 3-4 dipsy rods per side, on variable settings this is my typical spread of diver fishing, but you can run them however you like. This will depend on your size of boat and conditions. Just be sure your set them far enough a part so they don't tangle when fishing, turning, or re-setting lines. Make S turns while dipsy fishing, walleye love when the bait speeds up or slows down, this often triggers strikes from following fish.
This gives me the opportunity to explain why we have our dipsy rod holders only 10" or so apart and all lined up on a rail.
With the dipsy holder in line only 10" apart, the rod tips are that same 10" apart. And the lines from the rod tips to the water fan out and up to form even spaces between them (like skinny little wedges).
Now if we hook up a 4" white perch, pick up a weed or some other piece of trash, the rod tip may only move 2" with the added drag. But when that even 10" spacing on the rod tips changes to 8" on one side and 10" on the other, it is very obvious.
As you get into trolling reading the rods is what separates the men from the boys, and we do all we can to simplify that reading of the rods.
If the dipsy rod holders are spread out seeing those little 2" changes is nearly impossible. You should have plenty ample rod holders on the boat so that you can always move a rod out of the way.
Dipsy settings depend on where you fish and what you're pulling. West end spoons I'd go with 1-1/2 & 3. For east of Lorain 1 & 2-1/2. For harnesses or stick baits drop them down 1/2 for either area. Which would make it 1 & 2-1/2 for the islands and 1/2 and 2 for deeper water.
The free area of the "shoot" is important. There will likely be a time when you have 2 fish coming in at one time, and you need all the space you can get. If you have less than 10 inches between the down dipsy rod tips, you'd probably be wise to try and increase that, especially if the dipsy rods are not low to the water.
All this becomes more crucial if you fish for Steelhead or Salmon
The smaller dipsys (size 0) can be run off big boards (Charters have been doing it for years)when you have higher suspended fish. They use a super braid line and go with special releases and rubber bands to hold them.
The fun part of Lake Erie walleye fishing is that you can catch these fish in so many different ways, at whatever program you want to perfect. Just work at it and put a program together.
I looked at the numbers for magnum dipsys, and for Geneva to Conny, the dive angle on the magnum is so steep that you don't get enough lateral separation of the dipsys if you are running 3 or 4 a side.
Most guys run 30lb power pro for the main line.
A 12lb fluoro leader is too light if you need to crank down the dipsy release tension because of high waves, even with snubbers on the back of the dipsy.
Steelies will chomp you off.
I run 20-25lb fluoro leaders, and I have had Steelies break 25lb test (Berkely Vanish) on the initial hookup. Vanish sucks bad.
Seaguar CarbonPro or P-Line semi fluoro are my opinion for a good leader (they come on 200+ yd spools for economy).
My leaders are 6-10ft long. For my leader hardware, I run a good crosslocking snapswivel after the snubber, and I use a black #2 EagleClaw snap at the terminal end. To me, less extra bulk by the spoon = more fish. Duolock #2 snaps = lost fish.
What length leader? The longest you can get away with, depends on how long your rod is, net handle and how far forward you can walk in your boat to let the net guy get a clean swipe for the net job. I usually run 6-7 ft, tourney fishing in very clean water I'll go 8-10 feet.
A couple questions for you.
Do you own dipsy rods, trolling rods or both?
Where do you fish western/central/east basin of Erie, Walleye only or Steelhead too?
Do you have a big board mast, inline boards or neither?
How many rods do you plan to run?
When using dipsys, you don't need/want to put them on the planer boards.
Jets are easier for that.
By changing the "number setting" on the bottom, determines how far away from the boat they pull since they are a directional diver.
If you plan on only running 2 rods per side- I would run a 1, and 2 setting on one side
and then a 2 and 3 on the other.
Use a large snap to attach Dipsys to the main line.
If line twist is a problem for you, put a sampo swivel only 4' ahead of the snap, and it will help significantly.
Line twist can come from an untuned lure, Cheap line, dragging a trash fish, or running too fast for the lure.
Snap swivels are Sampo #2 tournament or #2 coastlock (both rated at 45# but fairly small).
For cranks I use a size 2 Crosslock round bottom snap only.
Leaders the same snap only as above on one end and a Sampo ballbearing sampo swivel on the other end. (For spoons & stickbaits)
Leaders for harnesses I use a ball bearing snap swivel on both ends, or have a ball bearing swivel only on the harness end.
Harnesses can be run behind either, with the main difference being speed. Dipsys speeds are 1.8 - 2.5 mph & in-line weights w/in-line boards are from under 1 - 1.5 mph.
A good harness set-up for two people is a dipsy out each side on 3 1/2, then two bouncers/harnesses out the back.
Dipsys can be tricky to learn, but reading boards at slower speeds can be tricky also. It may come down to you deciding what method will be best for your boat, and what you want to learn.
The horizontal separation on dipsies is not huge. We run 4 on each side on the charter boat, set at 1,2,3,& 4 , and I doubt they are more than 6 inches apart horizontally. Running straight as possible because issues of tangles are unavoidable.
The separation between a 1/2 or a 0 and a 3-1/2 should be significant unless you are using very long leads or you are going real slow.
Are you using the large Dipsy with the rings or the small ones?
Rings are important when trying to achieve separation for a wider spread.
Keeping the dipsy rods only 10"s or so apart, permits you to read one rod off of the others, and makes little 2" changes in the rod tips quite obvious. That why I'm a big proponent of the 3 & 4 plex T bar holders.
Some people like a softer rod for running Dipsies.
They say it's easier to tell if your dragging smaller fish and run the Ugly Stik MDS 1186 paired with SG47 LCs. I disagree.
There are a lot of good Dipsy rods out there for decent prices. A friend ran the JBI Erie Series rods for a few seasons and liked them. They cost about $27 each. A buddy of mine has been running the Ugly Stik CAL 1100 rods, and really likes them. They go for $30 each.
Some use shimano TDR rods $30-35 and Diawa Sealine 47's $80-90 reels and that is IMO a great setup!
I think the TDRs run a lot heavier, action wise, than they are labeled. I think the Ugly Stiks run lighter, action wise, than what they are labeled (compared to other manufacturers).
Another acquaintance used the TDR 8'6 and 9' heavy rods before, and didn't like them. The butt ends are way too big for his liking, making it uncomfortable to reel in fish (his opinion), and they have zero action, like using a pool stick to fish with.
More advice: most importantly get all your rods exactly alike, Same length, same action.
Pick a rod that has a soft tip because they are easier to read. Many charters use med or med heavy down rigger rods as dipsy rods to get that soft readable tip. Rod length is a matter of personal preference, but rods over 8'6" are unhandy for boats under 24' (storage).
A Dipsy rod is loaded all the time, just from the Dipsy's pull, rods need to rated for 20 - 25 pound test line. Spend more money on the reels and less on the rods (30-35 for rods, 80 or more for the reels). Okuma, Diawa, Shimano all make rods suitable for Dipsys in that price range, and I'm not aware a single line counter reel that you'll be happy with for under 80 dollars.
Shimano Talora rods & Tekota reels are the best out there (but the nearly $250.00 each price tag precludes them, I assume)
I currently use the TDR-86M2B, (8'-6" two piece) medium action, medium fast tip coupled with the Diawa Accu Depth Plus 47LC spooled with 30# Power Pro for all my #1 Dipsy rods for a good release.
Jets, Cranks, Inline and Big Boards I use the Mono outfits for the stretch and better hookups.
Rod should cost around $30 and reel around $50 during a March In House Sale.
Maybe less $'s depending on how many you purchase and what else you include as far as line and other items.
This rod/reel combo is of good quality, repairable locally and adequate for everyday trolling. Fits into a "good bang for the buck category."
I believe the best reels on the market for the $ today are the Daiwa Sealine 27's & 47's. I have both. Got most all of 'em off ebay for about half the original cost ($90... I paid $50 or less.
Another friend had dawia sealine 47LC and switched to the ADP27LC last year to test, then made complete switch. Cabelas has combos for 99.98.
Seaguar CarbonPro or P-Line semi fluoro are my opinion for a good leader (they come on 200+ yd spools for economy).
My leaders are 6-10ft long. For my leader hardware, I run a good crosslocking snapswivel after the snubber, and I use a black #2 EagleClaw snap at the terminal end. To me, less extra bulk by the spoon = more fish. Duolock #2 snaps = lost fish.
What length leader? The longest you can get away with, depends on how long your rod is, net handle and how far forward you can walk in your boat to let the net guy get a clean swipe for the net job. I usually run 6-7 ft, tourney fishing in very clean water I'll go 8-10 feet.
A couple questions for you.
Do you own dipsy rods, trolling rods or both?
Where do you fish western/central/east basin of Erie, Walleye only or Steelhead too?
Do you have a big board mast, inline boards or neither?
How many rods do you plan to run?
When using dipsys, you don't need/want to put them on the planer boards.
Jets are easier for that.
By changing the "number setting" on the bottom, determines how far away from the boat they pull since they are a directional diver.
If you plan on only running 2 rods per side- I would run a 1, and 2 setting on one side
and then a 2 and 3 on the other.
Use a large snap to attach Dipsys to the main line.
If line twist is a problem for you, put a sampo swivel only 4' ahead of the snap, and it will help significantly.
Line twist can come from an untuned lure, Cheap line, dragging a trash fish, or running too fast for the lure.
Snap swivels are Sampo #2 tournament or #2 coastlock (both rated at 45# but fairly small).
For cranks I use a size 2 Crosslock round bottom snap only.
Leaders the same snap only as above on one end and a Sampo ballbearing sampo swivel on the other end. (For spoons & stickbaits)
Leaders for harnesses I use a ball bearing snap swivel on both ends, or have a ball bearing swivel only on the harness end.
Harnesses can be run behind either, with the main difference being speed. Dipsys speeds are 1.8 - 2.5 mph & in-line weights w/in-line boards are from under 1 - 1.5 mph.
A good harness set-up for two people is a dipsy out each side on 3 1/2, then two bouncers/harnesses out the back.
Dipsys can be tricky to learn, but reading boards at slower speeds can be tricky also. It may come down to you deciding what method will be best for your boat, and what you want to learn.
The horizontal separation on dipsies is not huge. We run 4 on each side on the charter boat, set at 1,2,3,& 4 , and I doubt they are more than 6 inches apart horizontally. Running straight as possible because issues of tangles are unavoidable.
The separation between a 1/2 or a 0 and a 3-1/2 should be significant unless you are using very long leads or you are going real slow.
Are you using the large Dipsy with the rings or the small ones?
Rings are important when trying to achieve separation for a wider spread.
Lets Talk Rods
The rods are easier to read in the lower position, but that has a lot to do with your position and vessel. Keeping the dipsy rods only 10"s or so apart, permits you to read one rod off of the others, and makes little 2" changes in the rod tips quite obvious. That why I'm a big proponent of the 3 & 4 plex T bar holders.
Some people like a softer rod for running Dipsies.
They say it's easier to tell if your dragging smaller fish and run the Ugly Stik MDS 1186 paired with SG47 LCs. I disagree.
There are a lot of good Dipsy rods out there for decent prices. A friend ran the JBI Erie Series rods for a few seasons and liked them. They cost about $27 each. A buddy of mine has been running the Ugly Stik CAL 1100 rods, and really likes them. They go for $30 each.
Some use shimano TDR rods $30-35 and Diawa Sealine 47's $80-90 reels and that is IMO a great setup!
I think the TDRs run a lot heavier, action wise, than they are labeled. I think the Ugly Stiks run lighter, action wise, than what they are labeled (compared to other manufacturers).
Another acquaintance used the TDR 8'6 and 9' heavy rods before, and didn't like them. The butt ends are way too big for his liking, making it uncomfortable to reel in fish (his opinion), and they have zero action, like using a pool stick to fish with.
More advice: most importantly get all your rods exactly alike, Same length, same action.
Pick a rod that has a soft tip because they are easier to read. Many charters use med or med heavy down rigger rods as dipsy rods to get that soft readable tip. Rod length is a matter of personal preference, but rods over 8'6" are unhandy for boats under 24' (storage).
A Dipsy rod is loaded all the time, just from the Dipsy's pull, rods need to rated for 20 - 25 pound test line. Spend more money on the reels and less on the rods (30-35 for rods, 80 or more for the reels). Okuma, Diawa, Shimano all make rods suitable for Dipsys in that price range, and I'm not aware a single line counter reel that you'll be happy with for under 80 dollars.
Shimano Talora rods & Tekota reels are the best out there (but the nearly $250.00 each price tag precludes them, I assume)
I currently use the TDR-86M2B, (8'-6" two piece) medium action, medium fast tip coupled with the Diawa Accu Depth Plus 47LC spooled with 30# Power Pro for all my #1 Dipsy rods for a good release.
Jets, Cranks, Inline and Big Boards I use the Mono outfits for the stretch and better hookups.
Rod should cost around $30 and reel around $50 during a March In House Sale.
Maybe less $'s depending on how many you purchase and what else you include as far as line and other items.
This rod/reel combo is of good quality, repairable locally and adequate for everyday trolling. Fits into a "good bang for the buck category."
I believe the best reels on the market for the $ today are the Daiwa Sealine 27's & 47's. I have both. Got most all of 'em off ebay for about half the original cost ($90... I paid $50 or less.
Some remarks from a few friends:
NOW
With all due respect to the guys who like the whippy rods, the hvy TDRs are an excellent dipsy rod.
When you set your rods out the side and are fishing 3 or 4 a side, the heavier rods give you better separation of lines.
I've seen dipsy rods so light that the tips are pointing directly aft even tho the pole holder is directed out the side.
It is more difficult to me, to read the rod tips when the last 3 ft of the rod is pointing straight back instead of out. Make sense?
Holders & rod angles and when I say soft readable tip, I'm not talking whippy or the last 3' pointing down the line. I don't think you'll have that w/ rods rated for 20 or 25# line.
A friend uses Shimano TDR 80H2B hvy 8' dipsy rods and fishes 4 to a side. Again use all the same rods regardless of what you get (makes it easier to read them). The rods are all at the same elevation (just above the horizon) and pointed straight out.
The tubes have 10" of separation and I run dipsy settings of 4, 3, 2, and 1.
I have no problem with dipsy/line separation, and I can tell when there is a trash fish riding along with no problem.
Now, I have a saltwater background, but these rods in no way seem like pool sticks.
I've also tried 10 ft rods, and even in my 30' walkaround boat, those rods are just too damn long and are not needed. Also, to me, trolling for Walleyes with dipsys with the rods at different elevations from level to vertical may look good in the magazines, but you can't turn on a pod of fish like you can when they are pointed at the horizon (and they are harder to see up in the sun and separated greatly from the next), and the depth charts--you can throw them out the window.
With all due respect to the guys who like the whippy rods, the hvy TDRs are an excellent dipsy rod.
When you set your rods out the side and are fishing 3 or 4 a side, the heavier rods give you better separation of lines.
I've seen dipsy rods so light that the tips are pointing directly aft even tho the pole holder is directed out the side.
It is more difficult to me, to read the rod tips when the last 3 ft of the rod is pointing straight back instead of out. Make sense?
Holders & rod angles and when I say soft readable tip, I'm not talking whippy or the last 3' pointing down the line. I don't think you'll have that w/ rods rated for 20 or 25# line.
A friend uses Shimano TDR 80H2B hvy 8' dipsy rods and fishes 4 to a side. Again use all the same rods regardless of what you get (makes it easier to read them). The rods are all at the same elevation (just above the horizon) and pointed straight out.
The tubes have 10" of separation and I run dipsy settings of 4, 3, 2, and 1.
I have no problem with dipsy/line separation, and I can tell when there is a trash fish riding along with no problem.
Now, I have a saltwater background, but these rods in no way seem like pool sticks.
I've also tried 10 ft rods, and even in my 30' walkaround boat, those rods are just too damn long and are not needed. Also, to me, trolling for Walleyes with dipsys with the rods at different elevations from level to vertical may look good in the magazines, but you can't turn on a pod of fish like you can when they are pointed at the horizon (and they are harder to see up in the sun and separated greatly from the next), and the depth charts--you can throw them out the window.
I wouldn't elevate rods more than a couple inches from one to the next.
Can you tell I am opinionated about this?
Another friend runs 6 of the Shimano TDR's med/hvy in both the 8'6" and 9'(outside rod) in a 19ft Lund Fisherman. The reels are the Okuma Magda 30DX spooled with Hi Vis yellow 50lb/12dia Power Pro line.
Can you tell I am opinionated about this?
Another friend runs 6 of the Shimano TDR's med/hvy in both the 8'6" and 9'(outside rod) in a 19ft Lund Fisherman. The reels are the Okuma Magda 30DX spooled with Hi Vis yellow 50lb/12dia Power Pro line.
Running the large #1 dipsys in the central basin. The TDR's have a fast action tip for good flex and the Magda 30's crank in the dipsys and fish with no problem. Very easy to detect strikes from all fish. He has no complaints with this outfit. Your looking at about $90+ rod, reel, line in stores.
Dealer cost for me is about $30 reel, $20 rod, and $10 for the line.
Obviously not the most expensive outfit out there but surely one that will work well. If you fish the western basin with no dipsys or smaller ones than I would suggest a shorter lighter action rod.
And the counter mechanisms on the lesser expensive reels are the problem. It just really erks me when I'm setting a Dipsy, got it half way out, and look down to check the counter and it's failed. Pet peeve? Maybe.
Another friend has been running 10 pound Maxima in green for 3 or 4 years now you can get a service spool for 80 that will last you for years. He states that Maxima is superior to all other lines on the market for trolling.
He has ZERO complaints with this line, extremely strong and durable and I have not lost too many big fish, I fish a lot of cranks and inline weights with spinners just about all year long pulling boards so this line has earned it's keep in my boat and will continue to do so. I tell everyone who is looking for a good mono trolling line Maxima is the way to go.
Not lost too many big fish? One is too many for me!
Can you pull dipsys with 12lb BigGame without them breaking off?
I wouldn't chance it.....go with the powerpro. You won't have to worry about losing a dipsy set-up.
I have these different set-ups.
6-8' Crank/board rods are spooled with Berkley Big Game 10 lb.
8-8-1/2' Dipsy rods are spooled with 30 lb. powerpro.
10-8' Crank/board rods are spooled with Berkley Big Game 12 lb.
6-8-1/2' Board rods with 20# Cajun RED.
Because I believe strongly in staying above the fish, I also use 12# Big Game which is a little larger dia. than 10# XT, and thereby keeps the lure a little higher than the chart depths.
Line, I think is a matter of personal preference, and I don't believe that you need to use exactly what I use.
Accudepth Plus reels...(not sure if the original accudepth is still manufactured but stay away from it) These reels fail miserably.
You can get either the 47C or 27C which have no known issues to me.
Only difference is line capacity. Guts are the same, gear ratio the same. If you will only be fishing western and central Erie then the 27 has more than the needed capacity.
Some guys that fish Ontario for salmon and such may need more capacity.
The 27 has capacities of 450 yds / 12lb and 210 yds./ 20 lb. More than enough if you run either braid or 20 lb. mono.
Some guys just like to brag about a bigger size reel they have. The rest of us don't need to brag.
Eagle claw has a decent dipsy rod 8' or 10' with Okuma line counter reel. Reel is nice, even bend on the eagle claw rod. The Okuma Magda pros, I have had trouble with the counters resetting at 10' after 1 seasons use.
Dealer cost for me is about $30 reel, $20 rod, and $10 for the line.
Obviously not the most expensive outfit out there but surely one that will work well. If you fish the western basin with no dipsys or smaller ones than I would suggest a shorter lighter action rod.
And the counter mechanisms on the lesser expensive reels are the problem. It just really erks me when I'm setting a Dipsy, got it half way out, and look down to check the counter and it's failed. Pet peeve? Maybe.
Another friend has been running 10 pound Maxima in green for 3 or 4 years now you can get a service spool for 80 that will last you for years. He states that Maxima is superior to all other lines on the market for trolling.
He has ZERO complaints with this line, extremely strong and durable and I have not lost too many big fish, I fish a lot of cranks and inline weights with spinners just about all year long pulling boards so this line has earned it's keep in my boat and will continue to do so. I tell everyone who is looking for a good mono trolling line Maxima is the way to go.
Not lost too many big fish? One is too many for me!
Can you pull dipsys with 12lb BigGame without them breaking off?
I wouldn't chance it.....go with the powerpro. You won't have to worry about losing a dipsy set-up.
I have these different set-ups.
6-8' Crank/board rods are spooled with Berkley Big Game 10 lb.
8-8-1/2' Dipsy rods are spooled with 30 lb. powerpro.
10-8' Crank/board rods are spooled with Berkley Big Game 12 lb.
6-8-1/2' Board rods with 20# Cajun RED.
Because I believe strongly in staying above the fish, I also use 12# Big Game which is a little larger dia. than 10# XT, and thereby keeps the lure a little higher than the chart depths.
Line, I think is a matter of personal preference, and I don't believe that you need to use exactly what I use.
Accudepth Plus reels...(not sure if the original accudepth is still manufactured but stay away from it) These reels fail miserably.
You can get either the 47C or 27C which have no known issues to me.
Only difference is line capacity. Guts are the same, gear ratio the same. If you will only be fishing western and central Erie then the 27 has more than the needed capacity.
Some guys that fish Ontario for salmon and such may need more capacity.
The 27 has capacities of 450 yds / 12lb and 210 yds./ 20 lb. More than enough if you run either braid or 20 lb. mono.
Some guys just like to brag about a bigger size reel they have. The rest of us don't need to brag.
Eagle claw has a decent dipsy rod 8' or 10' with Okuma line counter reel. Reel is nice, even bend on the eagle claw rod. The Okuma Magda pros, I have had trouble with the counters resetting at 10' after 1 seasons use.
The Convectors are a better choice.
Small boat? For the boards?
ugly stick 7' with daiwa accudepth 27LC. They have plenty of room for line but not too much like the 47LC which uses lots of line (=$) to get spool filled for accurate readings.Another friend had dawia sealine 47LC and switched to the ADP27LC last year to test, then made complete switch. Cabelas has combos for 99.98.
I welcome any questions
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